calculator template for stable ion trapping

Well, it appears there's no really good way to do this here. This will contain various bits of code used to support the fusor, which presently includes everything from embedded 8 bit uP code to stuff to run under Linux in some HLL (often perl) to interface-specific stuff for commercial hardware, sysadmin tips and setups, and running on whatever machines I have in the tree here. So any one piece might fit some other category too, but...there's no pigeon-holing even computer science without losing the app-specific stuff and inter-relations of it all in a specific usage.
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Code sharing for fusor data aq and control software

calculator template for stable ion trapping

Postby Doug Coulter » Sat Jun 09, 2018 9:24 am

This really deserves more words than I'm going to type here but this should get anyone started.

I'm thinking that a modification of what makes quadrupole mass spectrometers and ion traps work will be interesting (at least) in a fusor setting, as after all these have some interesting properties. They do lack compensation for any space-charge repulsion effects, but they do give a starting place to get into the right octaves of parameter space, which is otherwise daunting. The idea of having your ions moving though a focus cyclically - and at high speed, coming through this point at high density, then slowing as they pass focus (to maybe re-smooth their distribution while at low energy) - seems attractive and would be the long-sought "recirculation" Farnsworth/Hirsch/Meeks thought would be required.

I found this link helpful in having some "worked" examples to make sure I was using the right units.\
However, the master class (which assumes you know the unit system used, the glossary is horrible on that count) is the book edited by Peter H. Dawson,
Quadrupole Mass Spectrometry and its Applications, ISBN 1-56396-455-4, (AIP) which covers a lot of possible configurations. Seems not much changes other than the factors 2 and 4 in the "a" and "q" equations - which are easy to see in the following code - and at any rate, not all over the place for the purposes of knowing where to begin experimenting.

Other measurements made here seem to indicate that in the part of a cycle where the ions are spread out at the tank walls - we CAN treat them as not reacting much to space-charge repulsion. In any cyclic setup they only get "dense" near the grid (we've seen way over 1000::1 "compression ratios) where it might not matter if they've already established a trajectory and gained high energy (a little repulsion won't matter - it's too late for it to have much effect at that point).

So, here's a little perl code you can diddle and mess around with. In my main setup this looks like we're going to have to be cafeful to not mess up a ham band or maritime comm between 160 and 80 meter bands. While it's only a theory, I'd assume that to make fusion happen we'll still need some high voltages and velocities, so while you can in theory trap a few D ions with a few volts, that's not a useful regime for fusion. We might not need the 10's of kv we need with DC drive, however, as measurements here indicate that with ~ 50kv dc drive, due to various effects, most of the D+ ions only get to around 5kv energies - probably part of the reason fusors are so inefficient..

So, here's my simple calculator in cut and paste form:
Code: Select all
#!/usr/bin/perl
use Modern::Perl '2015';

# tell F and ac/dc volts for Deu vs r

my $z1 = 95800000; # e/m of proton in coulomb/kg

my $a = .15;
my $q = .6;
my $tpi = 3.1415927 * 2;
my $em = $z1/2; # assume deuterium or close
my $r = 3; # radius input in inches
my $r2; #radius converted to meters and squared
my $f = 3500000;
my $tpf2; # f as radians squared

my $U; # DCV
my $Q; # AC Pk V

my $dummy;

while (1)
{
say "what radius, inch? ($r)->";
$dummy = <>; # read input line
chomp $dummy; # remove the newline
no warnings "numeric"; # don't bitch if it's now empty
if ($dummy > 0) {$r = $dummy;}
$r2 = ($r * 0.0254)**2;
say "radius meters squared = $r2";

say "what freqency, Hz? ($f)->";
$dummy = <>; # read input line
chomp $dummy; # remove the newline
no warnings "numeric"; # don't bitch if it's now empty
if ($dummy > 0) {$f = $dummy;}
$tpf2 = ($f * $tpi)**2;
say "radians squared = $tpf2";

$U = ($tpf2 * $r2 * $a) / (4 * $em);
say "\n\nU is $U VDC";

$Q = ($tpf2 * $r2 * $q) / (2 * $em);
say "Q is $Q VAC pk-pk\n\n";


}


This has some defaults which I don't bother to ask for on each roundy round, like the "a" and "q" values for the region of stability, but they are super easy to change in an edit (I'm putting those in quotes as they are really greek letters in the books' typesetting).

It looks like this in a "real" text editor:
Ionpl.png
Easier to understand with color?


I didn't do a zip as the above is so easy to cut and paste - the hard part was getting the units right after a little algepbra to solve the original equations in the direction desired - and checking against some working mass spec examples to be sure this wasn't off by 2 pi or c2 and so on.

I'm guessing that like those coefficients "2 and 4" used here, things might need to be double or half based on our electrode configurations (this is true in the Dawson book for some that use 3 and 6 or 4 and 8), but since there are two other things that are squares of the parameters...this reduces the search space considerably with just a few iterations...and who knows if my guesses for best "a and q" in the middle of the stability region are the right ones? But given the huge multidimensional search space otherwise, this is a heck of an improvement.
Posting as just me, not as the forum owner. Everything I say is "in my opinion" and YMMV -- which should go for everyone without saying.
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Doug Coulter
 
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Re: calculator template for stable ion trapping

Postby Doug Coulter » Sat Jun 09, 2018 9:43 am

Here are a couple of pages from Dawson.
Daw1.jpg
The basic equations

Daw2.jpg
Stability maps


Notice I didn't pick a and q based on his "operating line". In a mass spectrometer you want to throw away some ions and aperture in general to get higher mass resolution. Here we should have NO resolution issues (1 vs 2 for example is a doubling of m/e) vs a mass spec trying to look at lead or uranium. We just want to keep all our ions and keep them off the tank walls, and get our energy back on the slowing them down side of things so our net energy investment has a better ROI.
Posting as just me, not as the forum owner. Everything I say is "in my opinion" and YMMV -- which should go for everyone without saying.
User avatar
Doug Coulter
 
Posts: 3515
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Location: Floyd county, VA, USA

Re: calculator template for stable ion trapping

Postby Doug Coulter » Tue Jan 08, 2019 1:25 pm

FWIW, the pi network I just built to match the RF amp to the fusor resonates around 2,892,000 hz. Put that number and 2.5" radius into the above and see what you get.
For reference, the DC at which we just get neutrons well out of noise is around 18kv...there's method to this madness, at least a little, though the assumptions involved in the above are pretty staggering. Fingers crossed...This should at least get me into a region where there will be a fairly sensitive dependency on those assumptions being correct, with easy to measure and hopefully not too dangerously successful neutron production - just enough to see if I'm on a reasonable track.

Note the load on the RF is super variable depending on density of ions, which also affect the resonant frequency. A broad sweep of parameters is going to happen whether I like it or not - this stuff is all the hard to control stuff wrapped up in one (but easy to measure), and many of these functions are either very steep or not even linear - they're powers of something.
Posting as just me, not as the forum owner. Everything I say is "in my opinion" and YMMV -- which should go for everyone without saying.
User avatar
Doug Coulter
 
Posts: 3515
Joined: Wed Jul 14, 2010 7:05 pm
Location: Floyd county, VA, USA


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