Nov 15 2014 cam tests and...

Data from actual runs of fusors goes here, we can discuss it elesewhere in other sub forums I will create as needed -- let me know.
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Nov 15 2014 cam tests and...

Postby Doug Coulter » Sat Nov 15, 2014 4:23 pm

Well, I was testing my new pi camera setup - looking good BTW, and while I was doing that, replicated something (maybe - haven't proved it wasn't emi, but emi is a little doubtful here) I'd seen only once before, in May, which was ridiculous neutron output from the ion source grid alone. This is a very crappy grid, around 1" diameter, two loops of tantalum wire, used out in the main tank for when we want to run at pressures lower than the "main" grid will "light off" and stay lit. Due to PxD in Paschen's law, the little guy out in the big space can "fire" at lower gas pressures and lower voltages. While I was getting setup, I had it cranked to its max ~40kv and it was "lighting off" intermittently. So you can see what I was doing, here's a picture of the setup in the bake-out heater lights. Yes, the one the camera can see kind of blinds it.
Setup.jpg
The setup. Main grid in the sidearm, ion grid just visible at lower right.

FWIW, the neutron detector we log is a hornyak, totally shielded with internal preamp (coax to counter at 5v levels) positioned about 1" in from the end of the sidearm at the lower right, eg, much closer to the main grid than the ion grid. Assuming inverse square law, it should count lower for a given neutron production in the ion grid, since it's a lot further away...but we see what we see (also in X rays, from a separate sensor, behind lead and lead glass, with loud output (have to attenuate the 40v pulse at the counter/logger) and it correlates with the neutron counter (capture gammas?). At any rate, the only thing with power applied was the ion source. Since our plasmas are net-negative, it shows some main power on that graph, but that's just because the main grid is acting as a faraday probe (else the later Q plots would show infinite Q for this part, since we don't log the ion power at this point - we will later on). So that loud neutron and X ray output that ends around 100 seconds is "all ion grid" if you can believe that - I'm going to have to deliberately replicate it and see some signals on a scope free of EMI, as this is "too good to be true" - but you never know.
Screenshot.png
?anomalous output 50-100 seconds The pi cam above was taken at the same instant as the screenshot - 700-something seconds into the run


Ah, but we're really here to see the pi cam in action. It took a 2.5 diopter lens from reading glasses (we old farts know about this one) to get focus, could use a little more, but I've lost my higher power ones for the moment. At any rate, today's mission was to get a couple decent pix with the pi cam and with the cam in the shield, which I managed to do, so let's look at one. This is earlier in the main-power run, before things heated up in there very much.
TestCam.jpg
Here's what she looks like - pretty close to the mark 1 eyeball, but I'm not getting fried anymore.

After things heated up some - we generally show a somewhat reduced neutron output after some running as the D is driven out of the stainless steel fusor tank walls (that's our guess why, anyway - charge-exchange and beam on target fusion at the tank wall when it has D in it). So, here it is, hot:
HotGrid.jpg
I need the color temp to be right for the hot part, or I might melt something...so this is important for remote running.

As usual, you can click the pix to get a larger version, though I did scale it down from 2500-something to 1280 horizontal rez to save space. At this low light, it doesn't really lose much of anything but wasted internet bits. The sparkles in these are because though I have an extra lens and an extra near-ir filter, the pi camera still gets hit with X rays (inside a lead box to keep them out of the room). Kind of a nice backup if you know what you're looking at/for.

Of course, I am logging things while we do this, as in the screen shot above. Here's the full log plotting vs time. After the run, I put the silver on the geiger (pancake) counter, it's a foil the same size as the sensor. You can see where it took me awhile to think about doing that and get it done - we see some background at my normal levels while I'm making the move.
PostRunSilverAct.png
Post-run, with silver decay once I got it to the geiger counter

On the screenshots - this is very raw data, unprocesed as can be. The plot window marked A/D Inputs has blue as pressure (already log compressed by the pk251 sensor), purple is a 2.49v reference diode we calibrate the rest against (later), red is the main HV voltage, green current. I started at 9.8 current limit on the big guy, but went up to about 15 ma later, as you can see from that plot (and the neutron output). While it doesn't show on this plot, there was a small negative voltage picked up by the main grid near the 0-200 second range, or the later Q plots I'm going to show would have blown up mathematically. The initial low volts that you can see on this were because the pressure was far too high for either the current limit or any real neutron output (you can see the main HV was pretty low before I got the deuterium pressure down).

And now for some data mining...since I set a limit on this board of N pictures/post, I'll do that as a reply to this one. I wrote a perl program to drive gnuplot from our log files, and it can do all kinds of pretty neat things, like use that 2.49v reference we log to really know what the a/d full scale range was - super important since we have to re-exponentiate the pressure sensor output, and it can do math, like compute the Q (or really, anything you want to type in), point by point....nice tool, if you understand its limits. For example, we get neutron counts even when nothing but the detector is on - cosmic rays. Nope, no infinite Q, we know darn well those are not good data....we still show them because we know what we're looking at.
Posting as just me, not as the forum owner. Everything I say is "in my opinion" and YMMV -- which should go for everyone without saying.
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Doug Coulter
 
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Re: Nov 15 2014 cam tests and...

Postby Doug Coulter » Sat Nov 15, 2014 5:01 pm

I'm doing this as two posts to not run afoul of board limits on the number of bits uploaded/post. Here is a "straight" plot of neutrons/minute (actually neutrons/second *60 since they are one second samples) vs volts, current, and color is gas pressure.
plotlog.png
Shows the various running conditions as straight (but calibrated) data.

There are some interesting things to see here - we made a lot of neutrons during the blue-purple gas pressure. Those were from the ion source (or emi, or aliens or...I'll be following up on that you can be sure). You can also see that I turned on the HV at a high gas pressure (red) and slowly pumped out gass till it could get to 50kv at the current limit I'd set.. 8-9 ma. Later, I took out a little more gas (not really visible in the color change) and used the ion source and cranked up the current limit to 15 ma (one reason I worry about melting things - you saw in the previous post how hot this gets at 15 ma. I have 40 available with this supply...). So far, so good, it's as expected other than the crazy high neutron output from the ion source grid alone.
For neutrons, according to our calibration at HEAS sometime back, 980 n/m counts is 1 million neuts/second. We're not doing too shabby here by hobby standards.

Now let's go mining and use a preset I generated that lets us see a version of Q - neutrons/watt on an arbitrary scale.
Qplot.png
Q plot. Same data, but divided by power input on the main supply...


Looks like I have to take the log of this to see any Q at all with the main supply, as the output with "nothing" but the ion source swamps any info from the main run....The way I set up this perl program, that's easy, and here's what that looks like:
LoggedQ.png
Logged (logarithmic) Q plot of same data, only Z axis logged


Obviously, I have more work to do, but some of the analysis here is so obvious I'll leave it to the viewer to come up with. Obviously, we get higher Q with higher main voltage when we're running the main grid at all. The other stuff??? I want to replicate this and ensure it's not emi. It's unlikely (you should see the "heroic" measures we take here to shield both the sources of emi and the data logger stuff) but you never know...I'll get it happening again real soon and put a BNC Tee in the lines for a scope to see if it's really a signal (our detectors put out a definite shape pulse) or emi and let you know. If that ion source-only thing is real...wow. We all need larger tanks (and I have one...).

Here's the raw data we actually wrote during the run:
11_15_2014_15_3_51.log
Raw data log for completness
(79.38 KiB) Downloaded 232 times


And here are the settings for the raw and Q plots. Note I can log any axis, type in any perl code to map any data (or combination, as I'm say, backing out the drop on my ballast R) to any axis. This can all be saved as presets for later use...nice to not have to figure all those conversion factors over and over and so on.
PlotterSTDsettings.png
The actual program settings for the plot for "raw"

PlotterQsettings.png
For Q plots
Posting as just me, not as the forum owner. Everything I say is "in my opinion" and YMMV -- which should go for everyone without saying.
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Doug Coulter
 
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