First runs with SDAQ

Data from actual runs of fusors goes here, we can discuss it elesewhere in other sub forums I will create as needed -- let me know.
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Put data and fusor information from actual runs here. We'd like to know how well you are doing, and how you did it in some detail here. We can discuss elsewhere, this is for real reports from actual experiments only, or at least, mainly.

First runs with SDAQ

Postby Doug Coulter » Sun Apr 15, 2012 4:06 pm

As mentioned elsewhere, we like to test things in real life situations. That's why I built up a semi-robust version of the upcoming sdaq device. No test like the real thing, so I took it down to the lab and lashed it up on the fusor and took some data. I think I'm going to like this! While the fusor itself is a little in need of work, it surely worked well enough for this, and for me to instantly note I'd not put a log plot option on the counter plots - so by the second run i'd edited the code to default that way, and of course now I should really add a button to the software too. I really took this data to get a couple log files, so I'll have some real stuff to work with in developing my multidimensional plots for this data.

OK, cut to the chase. AD0 is wired to the HB output sense line (arb scale). 52 kv is what the supply was putting out at the peak on the plot.
AD1 is the current. Most of the first run was set to 20 ma current limit, so you can see that getting hit and the HV dropping.
Note, these don't compensate the drop in the 100k ballast resistor - but we could!
C0 is a Geo-210 pancake (slightly more sensitive than the standard counter one, due to being larger)
C1 is the Eljen Hornyak, a phototube, our preamp. This is the same one that went to Richards and got us what turned out to be a very easy to remember calibration factor ~~1k/cpm per 1meg neuts/second, roughly.
FirstRunAll.png
First run screenshot. Click to expand.

The two plots here reveal a lot. I turned on the HV first, but with no ion source, so the HV rises to max, 52kv (from the meter reading, the plot isn't scaled) until I turned on the secondary grid ion supply. You then see the HV dip a lot - There was too much gas in there for the 20 ma current limit. I then removed gas in steps - you can see some of them between 100 and 150 seconds. Notice hitting max HV also made both X rays and neutron counts go way up. The rest of the run was a dance with the gas, trying to keep the HV maxed at as close to the current limit as I could. The big downspike after 250 seconds in HV was a time I let in more - and that was too much, so I went to the other button and took some out. Notice here that with the HV "not all that low", the X rays and neutrons are just gone for that time. For (I think) different reasons, they are both nonlinear functions of voltage. The pancake by the way, is at the operators position, behind led in the tank, lead glass, and a block of lead(!). Some of that has to be scatter, some *could* be very hot gammas from fusion that would laugh at my shielding. At about 370 seconds I turned things off, and went to get the silver to check activation. IT took me way too long, as I'd left some junk in the path, but you can see a bit of background counted, then a jump up when I got there with the silver, followed by some decay. About this time, I went, OH, you can't back extrapolate the activation on a linear plot! You need log so you can take the straight line back to the turnoff time. So I fixed that for the subsequent running.

For the next run, I was a little more warmed up and had removed the obstacle to getting to the silver.
GoodRunAll.png
The whole screen from a good run.

GoodRunActivate.png
Activation measurement


On this run you can see me doing the gas dance as well, starting around 200 seconds. As it warmed up, the gas pressure and current went up, so I was taking gas out - as you can see in the steps on the voltage waveform. At 300 seconds I was hitting current limit hard again, but feared that I'd lose it if I took more gas out, so instead I turned up the current to about 30 ma. Note this didn't do much for the neutron count, but then we're not yet compensating for the drop on the 100k ballast - we lost a KV there even when the supply is reporting reaching its max (here still set to 52kv). It looks like in this run I hit about 1603 cpm on the silver, extrapolating back along the now-straight (log plot) decay curve back to shutoff. Gnu plot tells you the cursor location in the plot units, making this a fairly easy measurement.

Look how much better this is for learning about your gear! I like this. Now I have some data to go write more sophisticated plotting software against, too. There isn't even a reason to be stuck with pure inputs. I could plot watts vs neutrons - a Q map. I could correct for the ballast resistor drop. I could make a plot what would make it obvious if there were two different nonlinear effects for X rays and neutrons.

This is the way to go with this stuff. I knew about some of this - heating effects, how it gets dodgeier to control gas over a run, and so on, but here we "learned" this in two runs and plots.
Posting as just me, not as the forum owner. Everything I say is "in my opinion" and YMMV -- which should go for everyone without saying.
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Re: First runs with SDAQ

Postby Doug Coulter » Sun Apr 15, 2012 4:39 pm

And, here's the raw data as text (linux line terminators in file).
4_15_2012_15_51_30.log
First run above.
(32.96 KiB) Downloaded 301 times

4_15_2012_16_13_11.log
Second run
(36.72 KiB) Downloaded 269 times


The software generates these names for me - they're just time stamps.
Posting as just me, not as the forum owner. Everything I say is "in my opinion" and YMMV -- which should go for everyone without saying.
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Re: First runs with SDAQ

Postby Doug Coulter » Sun Apr 29, 2012 5:03 pm

I've been fooling with a more comprehensive multi-dimensional plot for sdaq log files, and to do that, I've first had to really learn how to work Gnuplot at all off the command line - I'm getting there.
This is because the perl module that "wraps" gnuplot doesn't know squat about the more advanced functions, but will let me "escape" them and shoot them directly over there - if I know what I want to send, that is.
As a result, I've made some half decent looking plots. Here's one from the second run above. Axes are voltage, current, and Z is neutron counts/second - all unscaled at the moment. It's pretty obvious that neutron count rises very quickly with voltage, and not so much with current - which you can also see in the plots above. Part of that is probably due to the fact we're measuring voltage at the supply to the ballast resistor, so increasing current means the actual voltage on the grid is less than indicated...

3dneutrons.png
3-d plot, volts, ma, neutrons are xyz unscaled and linear


More to come for certain, but mostly it will be on another thread describing the sdaq product. For one thing, I want to get pressure acquired (should be just a wiring issue) and use that for say, color. You can't get any arbitrary volt/current at any old gas pressure - it takes more gas to draw more current at a given voltage, in general. As such, this plot has a lot of "nothing" in the sense we were never operating over some range in the entire file I plotted, and gnuplot is simply "interpolating to fill in the blanks" - which is something I'll have to do some work on.

Edit: Here's a "more honest" scatter plot, nothing interpolated, just the data points I actually got on that same (second) run.
neutronscatterplot.png
Scatter plot of just the real data points.


Yes, you can rotate these plots to get whatever view you want, and map colors onto things as well. In fact, for my little plotting program, the biggest challenge at this point is figuring out how to have only the needed options - the full array of what's available is staggering! I will allow math to be used to scale things or create new variables (like, say, power input) for plotting.
Posting as just me, not as the forum owner. Everything I say is "in my opinion" and YMMV -- which should go for everyone without saying.
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Re: First runs with SDAQ

Postby Doug Coulter » Mon Jul 16, 2012 8:26 pm

Here's another view of that data, in a (not that well taken) youtube video:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CvlpT23A ... ature=plcp


Here's the UI.
plotdat.png
The UI


For flexibility, I've allowed you to type in mapping code for each axis. It's perl, each can be multiline if desired, you can get as fancy as you like, for instance, to correct for the drop on the main ballast resistor, scale pressures (using things like exponentials, required for the output of the PKR-251 pressure gage) and all kinds of fun stuff. Some more details to get done - axis labels, and maybe even some more axes. I have X, Y, Z, and color now - but there's also size and shape of the points I haven't touched yet - gnuplot's dox are a little....tough to get through and get what you want. Sill, this is pretty decent already, now for the niceties and some more options for the plot. The trick here is figuring out what's worth doing out of the near-infinite possibilities so that normal humans can work it - but still not leave out anything important.
You'll note that the perl code isn't that non-intuitive here once you know what the variable names are. It's not totally safe - you could type in "system (""rm *"); and it would happily do that...but that's not something you're going to do by accident, either.
Posting as just me, not as the forum owner. Everything I say is "in my opinion" and YMMV -- which should go for everyone without saying.
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