Smart Target

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Smart Target

Postby Doug Coulter » Sun Aug 08, 2010 1:21 pm

I mentioned a topic at HEAS last year I'd like to discuss here, because I think it may be an important idea. And it's one of the few I can lay claim to. All my other fusion work is actually just plain old well worked over tech that most ignore -- stuff that was worked out for electrons that seems to be getting missed by the fusion crowd. After all, charged particles are charged particles, within some scaling factors, and look at the things we've done with electrons that no one has moved over to the domain of ions ;)

Beam on target fusion devices currently kick Farnsworth types around the block in both efficiency and output, but they are what they are, and that's it.
So they receive less development work because of the widely held belief that you can't win that game. In other words, if enough people believe something
impossible -- it's self fulfilling because no one will even try.

One of the several issues of them is that you are basically shooting at golf balls 1/3 mile apart, from the air, with a shotgun.
Obviously most of what you shoot doesn't hit one doing it that way.

But --- how about if each golf ball effectively had a large funnel in front of it, so no matter where you hit the funnel, you hit the ball? While that isn't practical at atomic scales, something almost as good might be possible. What if your target was made of some crystalline molecule such that any beam ion that misses a target atom is scattered toward the next one? You'd obviously lose some energy in such encounters -- but a complete miss is already the worst case of that, and the most likely event in existing designs as they stand now.

Now, designing such a compound is going to be a trick, to be sure. You'd want some fairly high Z atoms to do the scattering, but obviously you need some fusion fuel in the funnel pipes to hit.
The problem is, the chemistry of most of the light elements is pretty simple -- you don't get to multiple valences till you get to boron, which makes putting them into the right alignment in a crystal a little tougher. For example, hydrogen and lithium don't have any real stable compounds with two bonds to them, they tend to "hang off the side" of some higher valence element.
And I'd prefer to use either a H isotope, or Li for my targets -- easier pickings and lower input energy required that way.

And while I do some chemistry, I'm hardly an expert and know way-not enough about crystallography, I just know what I want, not how to get it.

So, any crystallographers out there -- help!

I got clued into and/or this idea from a couple of different sources. In one of the more recent I was looking into ion implantation and noticed a warning that unless you have the substrate crystal aligned correctly to the beam, you get these variations in implantation depths even when all else is perfect. Even pure silicon has an "easy way" compared to other orientations, and it becomes obvious why when you rotate a 3-D model of a silicon crystal and observe.

Of course, the cold fusion boys are all over the idea of "lattice assisted fusion" themselves but I don't necessarily consider that an endorsement as I don't see them producing the good results so far. We are a lot closer to "boiling that cup of tea" than any of them are, at least insofar as repeatable. witnessed results by respectable people go where the only reports of cold fusion demand such sensitive gear to measure that it's doubtful they are even out of their noise yet with output. We're more at the "doggone radiation hazard" output levels and trying to keep it small enough to work around and live. Still not fantastic, but as I just said -- scaling it down all the time to keep it do-able for us.

This idea is another way to accomplish what I first thought of in about 1968 -- where in that earlier thought I figured I'd make more of a benchrest rifle array than a shotgun, and in a regular array (crystal) of fuel, once you know where a few of them are -- you know where they all are, so just don't shoot between the bullseyes. This saves all the energy you'd otherwise waste on particles destined to miss the targets. However, the technical issues with doing that, though they pass theoretical muster, are very daunting when you try to scale things up. Even with a cold target, there is motion around the lattice centers. So if you could build a perfect "shadow mask" to only let particles into your lensing system that were going to be imaged straight onto the target nuclei, you could only scale so far due to that. I suspect if you instead tried to raster-scan the target and turn the beam off between targets, you can't do it fast enough to keep ahead of the resulting heat and sonic disruption in the target. And that whole thing only works if you do all your selecting and gating on slow ions you haven't invested much energy into yet. The fact that they are going slow means the dimensions of any "gating grid" arrangment gets to be so small that you can't make it. So, I thought, why not do the selection at the other end, where there are other advantages -- like the molecules that do the guiding might be moving some, but still have a built in funnel that still points to the target?
If you lose a few hundred eV of energy per scattering event, you can build in a little extra going in, compared to the increase in successful interaction rate, I'd have to believe.

Note, FWIW I do have several rifles that can do this level of accuracy, and there the job has more variables -- wind, inconsistent things about the ammo, barrel vibrations etc. This should actually be easier without those problems.
Posting as just me, not as the forum owner. Everything I say is "in my opinion" and YMMV -- which should go for everyone without saying.
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Re: Smart Target

Postby chrismb » Fri Sep 03, 2010 8:59 am

Some time ago, I looked at the rate of energy loss under collisions for protons in lithium, and some of those reactions seem to actually add up to some net energy outcomes. (If I was set up to do so, then I'd run a matrix of experiments for proton-lithium beam-target experiments to see what little intricacies nature has put into that process.)

Problem is, that's a calculation just for the elastic Coulomb collisions. It's the electrons that suck up the thick of the proton energy.

Is there a way to reduce the effects of the electrons? Can you reduce the amount of ionisation losses by doing something to the target, like super-cooling it or keeping it continually excited with x-rays or holding an electric field [passing a big current] through it? Is there some semi-conductor solution, like creating a lattice of p-material so that electrons so hit will somehow wobble in the spot and, therefore, will encourage elastic collisions rather than ionisation losses? ... just a few thoughts...
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Re: Smart Target

Postby Doug Coulter » Fri Sep 03, 2010 10:07 am

Right, Chris. Some of this talk got onto that other thread you started (my bad :? ), when it belongs here, and I don't think John is quite getting what I'm talking about yet -- all his (gorgeous!) pictures are of things happening far more macroscopically than I have in mind with "smart target" which is something that happens inside a single crystal unit cell -- and a small one even at that.

I believe you are exactly correct about electrons stealing energy being the main issue with beam on target, which is why I was trying to point out that my particular idea here is to get it done in just a few atomic layers at most -- after that, I don't care where the de-energized ions (that missed and didn't fuse) wind up or what they do there (but buried bubbles are cool in their own way, just not the topic I'm trying to herd here).

Again, to make it simpler -- we want a basic chemical structure that looks like a bunch of pipes seen end on. In the middle of each is where we put our fuel atom. Any scattering off the high-Z crystal lattice should direct the incoming beam ions into the middle of this channel....so we in-effect, increase the probability of a head on hit on the desired atom, using the others simply as guides to direct a sloppy "shotgun" beam into the middle of each channel. This is very similar in concept to that really neat thing John posted about neutron lensing, but at a much more microscopic scale, in fact, it would have to be far smaller than the tiniest existing carbon nanotube to work. From the wiki, we know it works in silicon at the right orientation, so what we need would be for example, some sort of silicon hydride (for DD) or some lithium compound to make this idea real.
Here's the picture from the wiki article on ion implantation of a suitable structure (in this case silicon). I expanded it and put dots where I'd like to see my actual fusion target atoms to be.
Diamond_structure.gif
Smart Target design


I only show one black dot per pipe, the poor viewer (that's us) has to imagine these at one per layer of crystal unit cells going back into the paper on the Z axis.

I have some local help designing this crystal compound, from some guys in the chemistry dept at VA Tech, we're looking into it. Here's the big problem so far -- nearly all fusion targets of interest are mono-valent chemically, being low Z (and A). This makes it less flexible to design a compound with this structure where the target atoms are in the right places and held tightly.
I guess you have to get up to boron or so before you can have more than one bond, and that one's hard to fuse. I've basically been lurking the crystallography sources to find a crystal that looks like this with H in that spot. I'm really hoping some experienced crystallographer will show up at some point and go, oh yea, I know of one just like that, it's easy, but so far no luck on that, and believe me, their literature is tough going looking for what I want so far.

The real question here though is -- can it work, if I can find such a substance, or make it? The idea of course is that the heavier atoms that make up the rings would scatter the incoming beam to the channel centers and effectively increase the beam density there and there alone (or you could think of it as target density, it's the same idea) -- before losing too much energy to electrons and scattering -- which is why I posit this has to happen in the first few atomic layers if it's going to work at all. Instead of nano-tech, I'm talking pico-tech here.

If we want to go really wild on this one, we can also imagine a "smart source" which might be another crystal that has easily removed atoms of the type we want in our beam regularly arranged on the surface. If we spall off a layer of these with say a laser or a hot shock wave from behind - directly into high field E-optics, and focus say 1::1 with acceleration on a similar lattice dimension target, we don't need the "funnel effect" so badly -- but that's it's own set of headaches I think, so far.

The idea is to let nature and chemistry get our stuff arranged neatly for us -- we just provide the last step of putting in the energy in a coherent way.
Posting as just me, not as the forum owner. Everything I say is "in my opinion" and YMMV -- which should go for everyone without saying.
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Re: Smart Target

Postby chrismb » Fri Sep 03, 2010 10:51 am

In terms of just a 'plain' crystal structure, electron clouds around molecular compounds is, as far as I recall, not uniform and there is a branch of theoretical chemistry (darned if I can remember the name of it right now, but I think there is freeware in that field) that calculates where the electron cloud around the whole compound is strong/weak. I suppose the other thought is to find H-rich compounds where one can build a crystal of the stuff with all the 'thin' electron clouds around the H (or Li, or whatever your target isotope is going to be) pointing in one direction. Maybe that'd ease the electron losses...


...just brainstorming, here, for your target options...
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Re: Smart Target

Postby johnf » Fri Sep 03, 2010 3:11 pm

OK Doug
Its probably easy to do in silicon 100 type wafer.
Set up wafer as cathode with ion beam normal to surface.
Yes some of the beam will do damage by displacing Si atoms but the channels should act like the interior of the usual wire grid albeit at the atomic level.
Of course a beam on beam one each side of the wafer would squeeze the D into the channels until full.
Because of the Van der Whals forces the d should stay in there until forced to move, cathode heating comes to mind so a cooled cathode maybe needed

what then who knows, a good experiment to try

remind me when I've built my beam on beam device
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Re: Smart Target

Postby Doug Coulter » Fri Sep 03, 2010 5:13 pm

Yes! :D :D :lol: . Now we have three of the very best brains here (or anywhere!) on the same track; not to mention a few lurkers with similar stuff I'm hoping will chime in -- they have already in personal communications. C'mon, people! This is pretty open turf.

John, I'm still thinking of making the target with plain old chemistry, cheap and reliable, but I also like the idea you present here, of using a backside beam to fill it up and Van der Waals forces to hold it together for a bit. Should work -- chemical bonds are wimps compared to the energies here, just need the stuff in the right place and time for the idea to work out. Beam on beam would surely work in a different way if this works, with even more destruction of the target - which would not matter as it was expected to last just one shot anyway, then you move something to work with fresh stuff each time. Perhaps you even make the guiding lattice out of something that has interesting reactions with the products of the prime fusion reaction to get a little more output. Certainly, those atoms are kind of positioned ideally for the square law to work for you.

I do wonder a bit if the lattice damage we all know about defeats a reusable target worked from both sides, but if a gentle beam used on that back side, maybe not a big issue just to get ready for a shot? You'd heat it and increase the jiggle doing that, but... Beam on beam on this general line of thought would be totally killer - and gets the conservation of momentum gain in effective input energy like other colliders. One thinks of short low energy target-filling beams from both sides, followed by the real shot, in that case. I'm now wondering how thin a film the target would have to be for that to work -- darned thin, I'd think, before you lose energy and the desirable part of scattering? What Johns pix seemed to show is that you lose all that quickly with depth in target. We're working inside the first pixel or two on that scale, I think.

At any rate -- even if you can't keep using the same target spot, that's a mech engineering problem to move another chunk into the right place to get it done for the next pulse, or have the beam skip around between shots -- the target should be pretty cheap compared to the energy it makes. I note we have a couple good mechanical guys here, too...

They didn't show the servos on the di-lithium crystals on Star Trek.... ;)
Posting as just me, not as the forum owner. Everything I say is "in my opinion" and YMMV -- which should go for everyone without saying.
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Re: Smart Target

Postby johnf » Fri Sep 03, 2010 6:55 pm

Doug Et al
We had a massive earthquake here 7.4 Richter 7.5 hours ago (4:30am local time)We didn't feel it as it was 300kms south of here but Christchurch is a bit of a mess

anyway channelling goes in a long way Doug many thousands of atoms deep with little energy needed standard 300um wafer would be ideal for a try

catch you all later
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Re: Smart Target

Postby Doug Coulter » Sat Sep 04, 2010 10:56 am

We heard of the earthquake here on the news and thought of you. Glad you're fine. We once "witnessed" one that had happened across the planet. We were sitting by a tiny pond in our bottom land (totally silent and windless), felt just a little something -- barely -- looked at one another -- then at the pond, which was now in motion! It was on the news when we went back to the house -- China, about an hour previous.

Wonder where I'd pick up such a wafer with the right orientation? A little past my speed to make at home!
Posting as just me, not as the forum owner. Everything I say is "in my opinion" and YMMV -- which should go for everyone without saying.
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Re: Smart Target

Postby johnf » Sat Sep 04, 2010 2:06 pm

Doug
Epay, boxes of 25 6"wafer go for US$25 -US$80
well thats the range we buy in and we have probably bought around 30 boxes which included 3 boxes of 3"quartz wafer for US$75
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