The electric Sun.

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The electric Sun.

Postby chrismb » Fri Sep 10, 2010 7:16 pm

Did you guys see the post I made on just now?
This evening I went looking for work by Wal Thornhill and Anthony Peratt who between them have [if I understand it right] various theories about electrical effects going on in/at the surface of the Sun.

I think the general thinking is that there is some sort of inertial electrostatic fusion going on at the surface of the Sun, rather than inside it. ... fusion.htm

It all sounds a bit bonkers to me, but these are main-stream players (LANL, IEEE, &c.) so go figure.... looks like the Sun could, indeed, simply be a giant fusor!!

(see also the link I put in the other thread; )

Wouldn't that be fun, if it turns out the Sun is a +vely charged ball throwing out stuff into the corona and getting a load of beam-target fusion going, all powered by the galactic background!? I guess that might explain why the corona is inexplicably so hot?
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Re: The electric Sun.

Postby Doug Coulter » Sat Sep 11, 2010 4:39 pm

Personally, I strongly suspect there is a lot more going on in the sun than is understood, but....what probably matters is where the bulk of the energy in that horribly inefficient fusion device comes from...anything that big and with that much energy of all types certainly has a bit of this, a bit of that...and so forth, going on in it. I am supposing this is why solar missions are still being funded when all else is getting cuts...

Quote from wikipedia:

Above the chromosphere there is a thin (about 200 km) transition region in which the temperature rises rapidly from around 20,000 K in the upper chromosphere to coronal temperatures closer to 1,000,000 K.[55] The temperature increase is facilitated by the full ionization of helium in the transition region, which significantly reduces radiative cooling of the plasma.[54] The transition region does not occur at a well-defined altitude. Rather, it forms a kind of nimbus around chromospheric features such as spicules and filaments, and is in constant, chaotic motion.[45] The transition region is not easily visible from Earth's surface, but is readily observable from space by instruments sensitive to the extreme ultraviolet portion of the spectrum.[56]

The corona is the extended outer atmosphere of the Sun, which is much larger in volume than the Sun itself. The corona continuously expands into the space forming the solar wind, which fills all the Solar System.[57] The low corona, which is very near the surface of the Sun, has a particle density around 1015–1016 m−3.[54][note 2] The average temperature of the corona and solar wind is about 1,000,000–2,000,000 K; however, in the hottest regions it is 8,000,000–20,000,000 K.[55] While no complete theory yet exists to account for the temperature of the corona, at least some of its heat is known to be from magnetic reconnection.[55][57]

Could simply be a relative absence of electrons so the corona can still absorb energy from things like charged particles and neutrons/neutrinos, but doesn't have a good mechanism to emit energy (electrons....)

What boings me off is so many people thinking a fusor or anything similar we don on earth has much to do with how the sun works -- we are already doing far better in fusion rates and energy densities, using different tricks, and a vastly different fuel. I even get plenty of hints from people who it would seem know better that a fusor is a plasma containment devices and getting more compression ratio on a thermal neutral plasma is how to make them work better -- maybe we need a tokomak thread for those guys....I for one am essentially doing a beam on beam plus beam on target device, and the closer I get to pure beam on beam (lower pressures and densities at other than the focus), the better it gets -- fast.

For ref, here's a paper that has a bunch of astrophysical stuff related to both. There's a nifty chart of cross sections and Q's on page 11 (as labeled in the text) Science doesn't think we are doing CNO in our sun, as it's not that big, but there's probably some of that too. Pure H fusion is well,,, -- go look at the cross sections...
Astro paper with fusion data in "their" language and units.
(257.61 KiB) Downloaded 237 times

Or go look at the purty pictures from an older observatory (they have a new stereo picture setup now I think). I particularly used to like the slow motion movies in deep UV where you could see *into* and past the surface...

My gut tells me no way the solar system or the sun have some huge net some point the energy of that would simply create electrons, or rip them off the interstellar gas and we'd see negative charged cosmic rays. Except we don't, and we did look for that, awhile before the current crop of scientists were born. If we have a big net charge, it would have to be a negative one if anything as nearly all cosmics are positive charge. But the same argument applies as for the other polarity, at a somewhat higher energy scale -- too much charge and you start to see effects from that. Unless you want to say the whole universe has a net charge. If it does, so what? No gradient in that case to measure.

Too much specialization and blind leading the blind in science these days. Too many teachers who never did anything but go to school themselves, and only picked up whatever subset of knowledge their own teachers had at something less than 100% efficiency -- for generations. .8 (80%) raised to some high power is a pretty small number...and I suspect that base is being a generous estimate of knowledge transfer. This world needs common sense to become less rare.
Posting as just me, not as the forum owner. Everything I say is "in my opinion" and YMMV -- which should go for everyone without saying.
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