3D printing in metal

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3D printing in metal

Postby Donovan Ready » Fri May 02, 2014 3:36 pm

I expect some of you will have an interest in this. At one of the sites I manage we are making some good progress.

Have a look at Metalbot. There are a few guys actively developing, but more input is always welcome.
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Re: 3D printing in metal

Postby Jay Wolf » Fri May 02, 2014 10:58 pm

This is something I am following closely. Since I am a small custom manufacturer short run items really kill me.
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Re: 3D printing in metal

Postby Donovan Ready » Sat May 03, 2014 7:07 am

There's a group here in Austin, http://www.solidconcepts.com, that made a 1911 Colt by 3d printing. Have a look at their site. :geek:

http://www.newslo.com/two-dead-after-3d ... nting-gun/ Then, there's that bit. It makes absolutely no sense that the printer malfunctioned and fired over 50 rounds. I suspect something more sinister...

Edit: After checking around some, I think the newslo article above is simply a lie. I couldn't find any other reference to the event. I'll contact Solid Concepts on Monday and ask them.
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Re: 3D printing in metal

Postby Doug Coulter » Sun May 04, 2014 1:45 pm

Yeah, short runs kill everyone. As an inventor, machine shop prices were so high I figured I'd just build my own (and did). And now I know why...it's all setup, the machines are fast if you're making 100('s) - but one? More setup than machine-on time. I'm not doing CAD/CAM at this point, but I think that for short runs, it might not really help all that much anyway.
Yeah, you gotta do that stuff at some level, but I find paper and just thinking to work out OK when I'm working in the shop. I don't have to pre-compute tool paths to avoid crashes and so on - I just have to think it through so I do things in the right order (eg, don't mill or lathe off the part of the piece you're going to need to hold it for the next operation, yet).

Frankly, when gunsmithing, I just buy barrels from experts, and then do the "easy" parts - thread and chamber. Ditto blueprinting or even making actions, which latter I have plans for, but haven't yet done - I don't have the right paper to be a manufacturer, and while I want one (in fact, what I want is a short bolt/clip rifle in 5-7 for starters), I like to be able to make a few and sell the rest for almost everything I do, to fund it if for no other reason (also, guess who keeps the best one?). Stocks I either buy or make...the machine shop makes making cool stocks not so hard anymore (but there's a real justification for CNC for ya - it would really pay off quick there).
Posting as just me, not as the forum owner. Everything I say is "in my opinion" and YMMV -- which should go for everyone without saying.
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Re: 3D printing in metal

Postby Jerry » Mon May 05, 2014 4:41 pm

CNC is great for short runs. I can program and machine a semi-complex part faster than a manual guy can do a simple part by hand. And I can do it more accurate too with a better finish. Good CAM does all the work for you. It does not crash unless you tell it something wrong.

Metal 3d printing is kind of neat, useful for some things but will never replace machining. I might try it with my big yag whenever I get that thing finished.
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Re: 3D printing in metal

Postby Jerry » Mon May 05, 2014 4:43 pm

Donovan Ready wrote:
Edit: After checking around some, I think the newslo article above is simply a lie. I couldn't find any other reference to the event. I'll contact Solid Concepts on Monday and ask them.


That site is a satire site.
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Re: 3D printing in metal

Postby Donovan Ready » Mon May 05, 2014 4:46 pm

There are things machining can't do in one part.

NASA Tests Limits of 3-D Printing with Powerful Rocket Engine Check wrote:"This successful test of a 3-D printed rocket injector brings NASA significantly closer to proving this innovative technology can be used to reduce the cost of flight hardware," said Chris Singer, director of the Engineering Directorate at NASA's Marshall Space Flight Center in Huntsville Ala.

The component was manufactured using selective laser melting. This method built up layers of nickel-chromium alloy powder to make the complex, subscale injector with its 28 elements for channeling and mixing propellants. The part was similar in size to injectors that power small rocket engines. It was similar in design to injectors for large engines, such as the RS-25 engine that will power NASA's Space Launch System (SLS) rocket for deep space human missions to an asteroid and Mars.

"This entire effort helped us learn what it takes to build larger 3-D parts -- from design, to manufacturing, to testing," said Greg Barnett, lead engineer for the project. "This technology can be applied to any of SLS's engines, or to rocket components being built by private industry."

One of the keys to reducing the cost of rocket parts is minimizing the number of components. This injector had only two parts, whereas a similar injector tested earlier had 115 parts. Fewer parts require less assembly effort, which means complex parts made with 3-D printing have the potential for significant cost savings.
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Re: 3D printing in metal

Postby Jerry » Tue May 06, 2014 2:03 am

Nope, but they can be done with investment casting with a much higher quality. And at the end of the day you still need machine tools to finish the parts.
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Re: 3D printing in metal

Postby Doug Coulter » Wed May 07, 2014 6:24 pm

A guy approached me wanting me to help him do metal 3d printing with an electron beam, under the assumption that he could get to electron microscope kinds of tolerances that way.
Needless to say....it's not happening.

A: Can't get to good vacuum with square miles of surface area of metal powder....
B: Space charge refocusing
C: Stray charge buildup on metal powder makes it fly around

Right off the top of my head, anyway. On the other hand, a curved hole/passage ain't happening with a machine tool, either. Remember those old cast carburetors that had plugs driven in so that the cross-drilled passage wouldn't leak to outside? Or things that needed a lot of layers and gaskets to accomplish that? There is some advantage in the 3d stuff, just that it probably doesn't deserve the super-fad status it has at present.

Right now, my own issues are about the same whether it's cad/cam or not. What order to do things to make grids from carbon ends - so that I always have a piece for the chuck, yet everything stays aligned between drillings to well under a tenth (of a mil) - Haven't yet seen the automated machine that does better than a precisely .020" hole perfectly straight that is more accurate than the best tungsten rods I can buy in roundness and size - perfect interference fit and tiny minute of angle precision (or better), all with hand tools and jigs. The making took almost no time. Figuring out what order to do what cut in (and so it would all stay perfectly aligned) is what took the time - and would have taken the same or more time to program. For example, I had to hand tune the RPM for that particular drill bit to suppress it's own whipping resonance at some speeds =- else it had twice its size of sideways motion when not in contact with the work!
Are they all so identical that CAM can handle that, even after you know what's right for one of them? I kind of doubt it, the resonance was sharp. I think there are still places where it's the man as much as the machine, they are just a little less common than before - but not gone.

I think this is a case of "the right tool for the job" at hand. Buying a few tens of thou worth more tools wouldn't have been worth it - I wouldn't even have any better results, and personally, it would not have not saved me any time either. Maybe on the thousandth one....but not on the next one.
Posting as just me, not as the forum owner. Everything I say is "in my opinion" and YMMV -- which should go for everyone without saying.
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Re: 3D printing in metal

Postby Donovan Ready » Tue Aug 19, 2014 8:40 am

At one of the other forums I administrate, Yvo de Haas (Dragonator) has done some very good work with his "Plan B" additive printer.

Please have a look here for a demonstration video. :geek:
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